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by spellcheckman from Leawood

Last Post 163 days, 10 hours Ago


when to shoot, cont.
Oct 24, 2008 | 2:44 PM
Category: News
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A while back I asked the question:  when is it legal for a citizen to shoot in self defense?  I could count on the typical blogger answers but  a recent case in Mo. has shed an enormous amount of light on the question.

Mr Saldiva, from Iowa goes to a bar, gets rowdy, announces to everyone he has a gun.  It must be concealed because no one can see it.   One of the patrons tells him "he really doesn't have to be that way or behave like that." 
This agitates Mr. Saldiva and he threatens to shoot this patron.  Reaches into his trousers where this gun might be and is shot and killed by this patron as he reaches for his weapon.  The patron has a conceal and carry permit.
The County prosecutor in this case rules self defense, on the basis that anyone who believes deadly force will be used has a right to defend himself and will not prosecute for murder.

The dead man's wife is upset because she now believes someone got away with murder and is looking toward other legal circles and opinions to seek justice.

Clearly these points are raised:  Announcing you have a gun in a bar which turns out to be concealed puts you in grave danger.   It also labels you a moron.

Threatening someone after making such an announcement is tantamount to suicide.  A cop would have done the same thing and it is commonly referred to as suicide by cop.

In the past 2 weeks a local guy was followed back from the casino and robbed in his garage at 126th and Nall, and at 79th & I-35 @ the Q-Trip someone else really wanted that Tahoe with the chrome 22's.  I brought these instances up to a cop hanging at the liquor store Tuesday  and asked him:  If I carry  my loaded Glock 9mm on a holster on the passenger console of that Ferrari 512 with the really nice wheels outside, can I be tagged for a weapons violation.  And he said no you cannot.  The statute reads concealed.  You can wear it out in the open if you want to.  You should not be a convicted felon btw.  Once you procure your conceal and carry you can hide it anywhere. 

Clearly an incentive to burn off a Saturday for the 8 hour class in today's times. 

17 Comments |  Add a Comment

Member Comments Total Comments: 17
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rosco read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 3:13 PM

It is illegal to enter a bar with a gun. Conceal carry also applies to this law. Churches, schools, government bldg also are off limits to conceal carry.
rosco read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 3:19 PM

BTW, I have never heard of someone with a conceal carry going postal on anyone. Im not saying it doesn't happen but I have not heard of any cases.

When I applied for mine, they did a extensive background check on me. Did you know that if you are considered a "Nuisance" to the community, you may not get your C C permit?.Wow I skated by that one, barely. LOL
gunmandanhunting read my blog
Oct 24, 2008 | 5:04 PM

You can actually carry the firearm concealed in the vehicle without a CCW, but you can't carry it on your body without the permit. I think the gentleman who shot the thug that tried to rob him and his wife earlier in the summer should be given a medal. CCW kind of levels the playing field some. And I have yet to hear of anyone abusing the CCW license. There are several out there and that makes me feel better because the Police will tell you it's not their job to protect you just respond after the fact.
jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 5:45 PM

Get a Florida non-resident permit. You can skip the class as long as you can prove some sort of training (I used my DD-214 discharge from the Army).

It's cheaper too.

My understanding is that the definition of concealed is really up to a judge, but usually amounts to hidden and readily accessible.

Some judges / cops might consider glovebox accessible; most wouldn't. Most consider under the seat accessible.

Then there are federal laws - when you go across state line you're supposed to have your firearms unloaded and locked in the trunk.

How I'm supposed to obey that while on my motorcycle touring I have no idea. And don't really care either.
Calco read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 5:52 PM

Even with a CCW you CANNOT carry into a Bar, Now if it is a Restaraunt, that serves booze, then you can,
In Missouri you can Conceal a loaded gunb in your vehicle without a CCW permit,

checkout this website

www.opencarry.com

also serch and read the castle doctrine
ralex read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 6:06 PM

Besides the bar limit, you can't be consuming alcohol and carrying a weapon. The bar limit is 50-50 booze and food sales.
jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 6:09 PM

I do recall reading that now calco. I actually read the text of the laws, and you are right.

In Kansas the only law I'm aware of with carryin in the car is an odd one. It says no employer may prohibit an employee from having a gun in his car even if it's on the employer's property
jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 6:12 PM

You know all this reminds me that if a person REALLY wanted to carry leagally everywhere all the time he'd need to have an attorney at his side everywhere he went.

The regs are ridiculous and over complicated. Kansas concealed carry is so watered down it's nearly worthless.

I wrote an entire post about this a few months ago. I'm not sure if it's still here or if it rolled off the endge of the world.

Anyway, Vermont doesn't require a CCW to carry concealed. As long as you're not a felon you can do so.

As far as I know they have no problems there with it.
rosco read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 6:40 PM

Hey biker. I did not know that about using ones DD-214. I also went through Florida for my permit with taking the class. I also have a DD-214. It was cheaper and is for a longer period of time, I think a 6 year and not 4 yr. like in Mo. I feel very safe going anywhere when Im packing. Hope I never use it.
BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 7:02 PM

The weapon wasn't taken into the bar. Which is illegal. It was in the shooters car where it is legal to have a weapon. The shooter wasn't drunk and no there was no scuffle inside the bar between the shooter and Saldivar. Also he took the class.
NervousWill read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 8:44 PM

WhoopieEWyeA,
Shoot em up Boys. Shoot outs on the streets of KC every day and every night. Gunfighters get your stuff together. If you are a macho as you represent yourselves, strap on those maginificent firearms and venture into the heart of the problem areas, remembering that the constitution 2nd ammendment gives you the right to bear arms (in an organized militia) so you may need to join hands with someone when you do this. Oh, by the way, good luck.
jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 8:55 PM

You might want to re-read the 2nd amendment there nervous.

The 2nd amendment gives us the right to form militias AND the individual right to keep and bear arms. In case you missed it, the US supreme court just upheld this individual right.

History books are available at the library.
ButterBean
Oct 24, 2008 | 9:36 PM

Who needs a gun. I just beat the hell out of um.
BasehorLady read my blog view my photos
Oct 24, 2008 | 10:36 PM

I don't know if it's legal to shoot in self defense, but I'm gonna make sure if I ever do, the person is either small enough where I can drag them inside my house, or I have help from a good neighbor! :)
jturner30 read my blog
Oct 24, 2008 | 11:51 PM

Good for the guy who shot the idiot.
It's just another legal way of thinning the herd.It's almost funny.
Taylersgrandma read my blog view my photos
Oct 25, 2008 | 9:08 AM

The U.S.Marshall and his son, who is a policeman happen to attend the same church
I attend. They provide security for us. I
don't know if they carry or not.
Taylersgrandma read my blog view my photos
Oct 25, 2008 | 9:30 AM

My husband and son, in anticipation of an
Obama Administration recently got their
c and c. They also like to deer hunt, and
are concerned what will happen to the
ammunition, etc., if Obama wins.
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spellcheckman

An old athlete. Member of Mensa and the Procrastinators club. Never can make it to the Mensa meetings! Electrical/Mechanical engineer who made some money on a patent most everyone uses. Part time English teacher, (sub) Exotic car nut, Porsche, Ferrari TR512 (Boardwalk Motors, Dallas) and C6 Corvettes. Not Liberal or conservative but has views per the topic. Views do not neatly group me into either label. Neither of which I judge to be bad. Disciple of George Carlin. Do not vote for anything or fill out surveys, or belong to a "church." Usually sees both sides of a story and will take the opposite side for argument and thinking purposes.

Member Since: 7/29/2007


 

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