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by DogJ from KCMO

Last Post 156 days, 17 hours Ago


From the Wall Street Journal Market Watch - December 11, 2008

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Stung by the loss of more than $2.8 trillion in their net wealth, the nation's households paid down debts in the third quarter for the first time since at least 1952, the Federal Reserve reported Thursday. As of Sept. 30, the total outstanding debt for households shrank at an annualized rate of 0.8% from $13.94 trillion to $13.91 trillion, the Fed said in its quarterly flow of funds report. It's the first decline in household debt ever recorded in the report. Households paid off more mortgage debt than they took on for just the second quarter on record. Mortgage debt fell at a 2.4% annual rate to $10.54 trillion, as foreclosures mounted and fewer new mortgages were taken on. "Paid down debt... for the first time since at least 1952... "! Are you kidding me! 60 years of increasing debt, and now the consumer can't pay it back, Hum. The Great Depression

In early 1930, credit was ample and available at low rates, but people were reluctant to add new debt by borrowing. By May 1930, auto sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931. Conditions were worst in farming areas, where commodity prices plunged, and in mining and logging areas, where unemployment was high and there were few other jobs. The decline in the American economy was the factor that pulled down most other countries at first, then internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts to shore up the economies of individual nations through protectionist policies, such as the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other countries, exacerbated the collapse in global trade. By late in 1930, a steady decline set in which reached bottom by March 1933.

Second, there are structural theories, most importantly Keynesian, but also including those of institutional economics, that point to underconsumption and overinvestment (economic bubble), malfeasance by bankers and industrialists, or incompetence by government officials. The only consensus viewpoint is that there was a large-scale lack of confidence. Unfortunately, once panic and deflation set in, many people believed they could make more money by keeping clear of the markets as prices got lower and lower and a given amount of money bought ever more goods.

The Great Depression was overindebtedness and deflation. Loose credit and over-indebtedness fueled speculation and asset bubbles.[

Does any of this sound familiar?

Those who ignore history are destined to repeat it.

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Member Comments Total Comments: 7
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wood-cutter read my blog view my photos
Dec 12, 2008 | 4:19 PM

Well said dogj.

vision read my blog
Dec 12, 2008 | 10:02 PM

Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931.-DogJ
Prices on gas rose to a all time high, wages have been lost due to overseas shipping of corps.
No, DogJ, this will be worse when it hits the full blown effect than the depression.

Politicians may be in a execution line before we done. Called I did not choose politics as my calling.

vision read my blog
Dec 13, 2008 | 12:43 AM

That should read "Gald I did not choose politics as my calling", sorry company came to the door.

jturner30 read my blog
Dec 13, 2008 | 1:15 AM

The biggest reason there is an economic crisis is because Americans are irresponsible.Most don't vote and most that do don't care to make decisions based on what's best for the country.As long as we depend on banks to finance our way of life it will not end.We give the banks power by giving them our money it is as simple as that.

DogJ read my blog
Dec 13, 2008 | 6:46 AM

"We give the banks power by giving them our money it is as simple as that." - jturner

Interesting perspective, especially since I'm in finance! And I don't necessarily disagree. But, I will note that after the Great Depression, the Taft-Hartley Act did do wonders to controling and regulating that power; protecting the depositor. Now remind me, what happened to Taft-Hartley? (j/k).

Whether it is a recession or depression, excessive credit/debt is always the cause. Bubbles, which eventually burst, are not caused by a finite amount of money, they are caused by an infinite amount of money.

Searchingtoo read my blog view my photos
Dec 13, 2008 | 8:58 AM

Excellant post jdog. Really puts a lot into perspective. Got to admit though, had to got to a lot of links in there to understand some of it. I have a lot to learn about our finance system.. but you know that, and I am greatful for the education.

mpvan read my blog
Dec 13, 2008 | 4:42 PM

Living beyond one's means, with no education, which in turn makes you non-marketable, which in turn presents a big cash in-flow problem.

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DogJ

I love to discuss Politics, Economics and Government. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and environmentalist. I'm often confused as being a moderate or Libertarian, but then I'm just often confused. I'm a debater, but stay away from discussions that get personal/attacking. I find that most people are deep in opinions and shallow in facts, (okay, that was an opinion). God Bless American.

Member Since: 2/22/2008